Dedimania forum

masterbas · 2013-03-06 11:28:54

Jow all

Get Connection Error Dedimania.8095

Unsuported game and/or Packmask !!! <TM2,Stadium>

I was wondering when will there be a fix for it and wil dedimania support TM2 Stadium ?

Greetz Base

Last edited by masterbas (2013-03-06 12:41:35)

xymph · 2013-03-06 12:24:55

Of course, being worked on by Slig.

slig · 2013-03-07 05:58:24

TM²Stadium support is now activated

moron12 · 2013-03-07 08:21:45

hey nice work there:D but i noticed that not all maps got dedis. it seems like NO CP=no dedis(which is ok with me:P). are there any rules for record savings like the sticky for TMF? did not find it:D would be good to know

greetz

masterbas · 2013-03-07 09:58:47

Thx very much it works like a charm

xymph · 2013-03-07 11:09:30

moron12 wrote:
hey nice work there:D but i noticed that not all maps got dedis. it seems like NO CP=no dedis(which is ok with me:P). are there any rules for record savings like the sticky for TMF? did not find it:D would be good to know

Same as for Canyon:
http://dedimania.net/SITE/forum/viewtop … 2444#p2444
http://dedimania.net:8082/Dedimania
The CP requirement is listed in the latter link.

moron12 · 2013-03-07 17:58:23

xymph wrote:
moron12 wrote:
hey nice work there:D but i noticed that not all maps got dedis. it seems like NO CP=no dedis(which is ok with me:P). are there any rules for record savings like the sticky for TMF? did not find it:D would be good to know
Same as for Canyon:
http://dedimania.net/SITE/forum/viewtop … 2444#p2444
http://dedimania.net:8082/Dedimania
The CP requirement is listed in the latter link.

Ok. Thx

but i have another question.
TimeAttack:
As i said it is actually OK that you reject maps without CP's, i guess that has something to do with cheaters? But i already heard a few complains about that. Is there any change to accept maps without cps? Actually there are many maps out there without cps and those are pretty cool imo but boring without out dedis as every map is:D
So then i noticed that even with cp some maps do not have dedis (about 10 sec author times, mostly nation maps)
something to do with that = attempt final time?

I know you have your reasons for such rules and it is running in canyon too.
But i think comparing canyon and stadium is not that good.
Canyon=completly new style/game
Stadium=already got a huge choice of maps, especially for LOL-player( yeah i know many stupid maps but also really cool ones:P )
As for cheaters on no-CP maps, thx to you guys we have ghost savings on Stadium² so that shouldn't be a problem.

do not take that as criticism it is more like a feedback from my(also others) first impressions.

maybe you are willing to re-Think those rules for Stadium² i would appreciate it:D

greetz

enryx13 · 2013-03-07 18:25:00

Could Nadeo no-cps have dedi?
As of now only A08 is no-cp but who knows, maybe in Green to Black difficulty there will be more
It would be an acceptable exception of the rules since Nadeos are often "dedihunted" ^^

P.s. good work ofc <3

And I have to re-read that thing of paying for maxrank to reply

slig · 2013-03-07 19:23:15

=> Fast4 checks a 6.2s minimum author time (except for Nadeo maps)
=> Xaseco2 checks a 8s minimum author time (with no exception)

Whatever you change on client side, the minimum records times is 6s on dedimania side (except for Nadeo maps). And it's already too low ! so don't expect it to become lower...

You can eventually modify the xaseco2 script file to reduce $ dedi_minauth, and eventually add the Nadeo maps exception, if really the 8s author time minimum is so high for you. But do you really that races races with less than 8s author time deserve to battle for records and store them ?

The 1 checkpoint requirement will stay: just stop to use maps without cp, and tell mappers who build new maps without cp to add at least one.

shadowdash · 2013-03-07 19:34:07

moron12 wrote:
xymph wrote:
moron12 wrote:
hey nice work there:D but i noticed that not all maps got dedis. it seems like NO CP=no dedis(which is ok with me:P). are there any rules for record savings like the sticky for TMF? did not find it:D would be good to know
Same as for Canyon:
http://dedimania.net/SITE/forum/viewtop … 2444#p2444
http://dedimania.net:8082/Dedimania
The CP requirement is listed in the latter link.
Ok. Thx

but i have another question.
TimeAttack:
As i said it is actually OK that you reject maps without CP's, i guess that has something to do with cheaters? But i already heard a few complains about that. Is there any change to accept maps without cps? Actually there are many maps out there without cps and those are pretty cool imo but boring without out dedis as every map is:D
So then i noticed that even with cp some maps do not have dedis (about 10 sec author times, mostly nation maps)
something to do with that = attempt final time?

I know you have your reasons for such rules and it is running in canyon too.
But i think comparing canyon and stadium is not that good.
Canyon=completly new style/game
Stadium=already got a huge choice of maps, especially for LOL-player( yeah i know many stupid maps but also really cool ones:P )
As for cheaters on no-CP maps, thx to you guys we have ghost savings on Stadium² so that shouldn't be a problem.

do not take that as criticism it is more like a feedback from my(also others) first impressions.

maybe you are willing to re-Think those rules for Stadium² i would appreciate it:D

greetz

i think this too
a lot of nationsmaps has no cp and there are classicmaps - lol/short oder veryshort

moron12 · 2013-03-07 19:49:09

slig wrote:
The 1 checkpoint requirement will stay: just stop to use maps without cp, and tell mappers who build new maps without cp to add at least one.

why that? where is the difference between maps without cps and with? except the fact of the CP's( lol confusing^^)

i drive maps that makes fun nothing to do with using maps. but it always more fun with dedis. Isn't that the whole idea behind the dedimania system? making maps more fun and competitive? i think it is. i don't ask for 9 -10 sec maps.

but you implying that all maps wihtout cps are 8 sec long and not worth for do save records for it. that is not the case

example and question: there are maps with one cp and final time is 10 sec= dedis another map 15 sec and no cp= no dedi. second one is clearly more fun and it is going down.
i do not see any reason why they shouldn't get dedis.

Last edited by moron12 (2013-03-07 19:50:23)

enryx13 · 2013-03-07 20:00:34

@Everybody

If you can open the map in the editor, add a CP and resave it!

Upload to MX saying it's the dedimania version of >>Link to real TMN/TMF map<<

Add to server

Bingo!

moron12 · 2013-03-07 20:04:03

lol and now for thousands of maps...

slig · 2013-03-07 20:06:32

moron12 wrote:
example and question: there are maps with one cp and final time is 10 sec= dedis another map 15 sec and no cp= no dedi. second one is clearly more fun and it is going down.

well... any short map with cp would have the same fun to play if you remove them

And anyway, i did not say that a very very short map can't be fun to play (i don't really agree myself, but well... ok), only that records on a 5s map are useless, just because gaps are more caused by luck than skill (yes, you can probably find very few exceptions)

i do not see any reason why they shouldn't get dedis.

You indicate it yourself in your 1st post.

It's simple : mappers will learn to add at least 1 cp if they want to have their map having a chance to be played on many servers, they will probably learn the rule quickly

slig · 2013-03-07 20:17:29

Just think about adding the author name in the map name (and why not also in the map comments).
Or, as you speak about tmn or tmnf maps, you can eventually edit it using a local/unconnected account that you created with the same name as author...

And if you really want to play on thousands of such maps, then you should perhaps continue to play them on TMN/TMNF :p

moron12 · 2013-03-07 20:22:31

slig wrote:
It's simple : mappers will learn to add at least 1 cp if they want to have their map having a chance to be played on many servers, they will probably learn the rule quickly

yeah i understand that. but still i do not get why nadeo didn't blocked those old maps anyway. It is completely OK for future maps. The reason i posted it was every server on stadium² is full of old maps many ppl especially the lol players are not that happy about this situation and i can understand it.

In the end it is your decision and as i said before i do not mean maps like 5-8 sec.
It was actually just a starter to get some thoughts together and maybe you will still re-think it and set, let's say no cp limit to 13+ sec or sth. like that.

edit :and you destroying a whole style like lunatic and LOL(ie. downhill and more)with that, cause most em have no cps. with cps you would gave a way how to finish.

Last edited by moron12 (2013-03-07 21:09:18)

enryx13 · 2013-03-07 21:12:14

moron12 wrote:
lol and now for thousands of maps...

Well hehe yeah so there are a lot

At least we can do that (cp-add)
And to not spam MX we can send you the map and you(or whoever else) can manual add them to servers

Kind of temporary solution

Edit: ofc I can help out. We find XX players and every player take some maps, that won't take long. Let's meet somewhere ingame?

Because I dont see any other solution atm

Last edited by enryx13 (2013-03-07 21:14:39)

xymph · 2013-03-07 21:13:32

Personally I think really short tracks are silly and pointless, and have little to do with racing -- and TM is a racing game, first and foremost.
I also feel that not having any CP in a track is a serious design error, because it's good to have an intermediate measuring point on route to the finish, so CP-less tracks should be discouraged. The Dedimania2 requirement helps there, but as noted before, should become better known among track authors and players alike.

But personal opinions aside, the CP requirement on TM2 is also a result from the large amount of cheating that happens in TMF, where one of the first cheats -- and certainly the most common -- gives a player a 2-3 second head-start. That is fairly easy to detect in automated scans of the Dedimania database, if and only if the track has a CP within, say, the first 10 seconds. After that, or on tracks without CP, the bad skills of the cheater outweigh the head-start and the difference at the finish can no longer be detected automatically with sufficient reliability.

Slig and I discussed this before Dedi2 was launched, and our experiences with this problem made us decide on the CP requirement as a pre-emptive measure against online cheating. Had we anticipated the scale of online cheating in TMF, then TMF records would have gotten a new database (separate from TMN and older, where StarForce was an effective measure against client hacking), and the CP requirement would already have been introduced there, instead of with Dedi2.

The fact that Dedi2 also stores replays now doesn't really make a difference, because there's no practical way to check validation replays in bulk. The client has a batch-validate option but it is broken, and it's not clear if and when it'll be fixed. Therefore database scans remain an important strategy in dealing with online cheating, when (not if, now that Stadium exists) it becomes more prominent.

moron12 · 2013-03-07 21:19:27

xymph wrote:
Personally I think really short tracks are silly and pointless, and have little to do with racing -- and TM is a racing game, first and foremost.
I also feel that not having any CP in a track is a serious design error, because it's good to have an intermediate measuring point on route to the finish, so CP-less tracks should be discouraged. The Dedimania2 requirement helps there, but as noted before, should become better known among track authors and players alike.

But personal opinions aside, the CP requirement on TM2 is also a result from the large amount of cheating that happens in TMF, where one of the first cheats -- and certainly the most common -- gives a player a 2-3 second head-start. That is fairly easy to detect in automated scans of the Dedimania database, if and only if the track has a CP within, say, the first 10 seconds. After that, or on tracks without CP, the bad skills of the cheater outweigh the head-start and the difference at the finish can no longer be detected automatically with sufficient reliability.

Slig and I discussed this before Dedi2 was launched, and our experiences with this problem made us decide on the CP requirement as a pre-emptive measure against online cheating. Had we anticipated the scale of online cheating in TMF, then TMF records would have gotten a new database (separate from TMN and older, where StarForce was an effective measure against client hacking), and the CP requirement would already have been introduced there, instead of with Dedi2.

The fact that Dedi2 also stores replays now doesn't really make a difference, because there's no practical way to check validation replays in bulk. The client has a batch-validate option but it is broken, and it's not clear if and when it'll be fixed. Therefore database scans remain an important strategy in dealing with online cheating, when (not if, now that Stadium exists) it becomes more prominent.

well:D i have to give it to you:D can not and will not argue with you on this one. thx

Dedimania forum

#1 2013-03-06 11:28:54

Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#2 2013-03-06 12:24:55

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#3 2013-03-07 05:58:24

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#4 2013-03-07 08:21:45

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#5 2013-03-07 09:58:47

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#6 2013-03-07 11:09:30

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

moron12 wrote:

#7 2013-03-07 17:58:23

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

xymph wrote:

moron12 wrote:

#8 2013-03-07 18:25:00

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#9 2013-03-07 19:23:15

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#10 2013-03-07 19:34:07

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

moron12 wrote:

xymph wrote:

moron12 wrote:

#11 2013-03-07 19:49:09

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

slig wrote:

#12 2013-03-07 20:00:34

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#13 2013-03-07 20:04:03

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#14 2013-03-07 20:06:32

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

moron12 wrote:

#15 2013-03-07 20:17:29

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#16 2013-03-07 20:22:31

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

slig wrote:

#17 2013-03-07 21:12:14

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

moron12 wrote:

#18 2013-03-07 21:13:32

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

#19 2013-03-07 21:19:27

Re: Dedimania Xaseco2 TM stadium

xymph wrote:

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